Comments on: Cycling In The Netherlands, Facts vs Dribble

By: Anonymous

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By: Clivedurdle

Clivedurdle — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:54:18 +0000

On being British, it is as if planning and thinking and doing things properly are somehow anathema. I can't remember when we passed a law saying we must be like that!

By: Clivedurdle

Clivedurdle — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:50:32 +0000

Told you it was a special force field blue paint – the money went into developing it!

By: ScaredAmoeba

ScaredAmoeba — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 14:19:11 +0000

Re: What a good use of tax-payers' money.

Reading David Hembrow's Blog
http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2010/08/most-expensive-bikes-in-world.html
It appears that Boris Bikes are among the most expensive in the world.

The scheme apparently cost £140 million / 6000 bikes = £23000 per bike.
Yes of course that includes the infrastructure - the docking stands, keys and a lot of publicity and it excludes the fees for bike rental. But £23k each?

At retail prices, not asking for any discount at all, London could have bought and given away 250 Pashleys every day, for a year, plus an additional 160 Bromptons every day for a year plus an additional 100 Bakfietsen every day for a whole year.

In total that would make another 190000 bikes on London's streets over the year of the giveaway. Nice ones, too, from good manufacturers.

Mmmm. Boris' scheme does sound a tad expensive.

By: ScaredAmoeba

ScaredAmoeba — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:22:09 +0000

There is a great deal of what I perceive to be ill-informed comment about cycling facilities. In the UK we have silly painted lines on the roads which are inherently dangerous. Most of these are very narrow [varying from slightly wider to narrower than a bicycle] and encourage motorists to engage in dangerous close passing. John Franklin's excellent Cyclecraft suggests that cyclists should ignore painted on-road cycle lanes when choosing a road position, however a proportion of UK motorists are actively hostile to cyclists and this can lead to the cyclist being educated or harassed by idiots in cars.

Shared cycle paths made by painting a white line on the pavement are not much use either. Typically the side allocated to cyclists is littered with numerous obstacles like lamp-posts; parked cars; lies within the door-zone of cars parked adjacent to the path; litter bins; bus shelters; railings and trees. The surface is frequently poorly maintained; crumbling; rutted; lifted by tree roots and scattered with cracks and holes. These routes are often very short, making them of limited value and the cyclist is often dumped back on the road in a blind-spot, which is hardly conducive to safety.

Off-road cycle paths are often obstructed by devices intended to block illegal use by motorcycles, these obstacles are often dangerous to cyclists at night and at all times impede the progress of cyclists, and as for bikes with panniers or towing trailers, forget it.

'Cyclists Dismount' signs: these need to be used no more often than signs directing motorists to 'get out and push'.

Most cycling facilities in the UK show all the signs of being: an afterthought; done on the cheap; and failing to consider the needs and wishes of cyclists. There seems to be no indications of thought of usefulness or integration into a wider network.

I am fully convinced that the only way to achieve increased cycling levels in the UK and reap the numerous benefits to the cyclists; society in genera;l and the economy is to apply the lessons learned in the Netherlands. But we're British and we of course know better, except that we don't.

By: Cab

Cab — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 18:39:56 +0000

I'm increasingly alarmed by the tone taken here, and at Copenhagenize, and indeed at the Waltham Forest blog about so called 'vehicular cycling'.

I'm not opposed to good cycling facilities; to be like that would be crazy. But here in the UK I don't have a choice between using good facilities and using the road, I've got a choice between dreadful cycle lanes (that are very often narrower than I am and pinned to the kerb, bouncing on and off the pavement where they give way to every other drive way and every single side road) that go nowhere like where I want to go, or instead using the road.

I'm not a vehicular cyclist because I oppose well thought out, well built infrastructure. I'm a vehicular cyclist because even in cities in the UK that are meant to be pro-cycling, there are very few workable facilities.

I've elaborated on this argument here:
http://community.livejournal.com/cyclist_issues...
http://community.livejournal.com/cyclist_issues...

By: Merton Cyclist

Merton Cyclist — Tue, 18 May 2010 04:41:49 +0000

My main route into the centre is one of these new blue lanes in London. That's what they are. ALL they are. A different paint colour at the edge of crammed Victorian-era roads. Ones that were never designed for motor vehicles, let alone sharing with bicycles (in fact, one could argue that bikes should be given far more priority as they came first on these very roads). Thus there is NO spare space, and in this area the drivers can be extremely ignorant, unlicensed/uninsured, or even just forced to park in the cycle lanes as there's nowhere else to park. Not that I sympathise with the car-lover doing a casual 3km drive across town to pick up a meal, then parking in an illegal area, but I'm talking about delivery drivers, buses at bus stops and such. WHERE do you fit them all whilst giving cyclists 1m+ of clear, prioritised and 'sacred' space on each side of the road. You can't! Well, there's always the option of demolishing the buildings along the whole route and making the road much wider… No? Just the blue paint it is, then. This was implemented by the same mayor whose only other memorable act was to ban alcohol drinking on the London Underground. Making no real difference to anyone's life. What a good use of tax-payers' money.
Anyway, cycling is only relaxing here at 2am onwards.

By: Andrew Robertson

Andrew Robertson — Mon, 17 May 2010 16:53:11 +0000

The Dutch are leaps and bounds ahead of the UK. As Clive pointed out, the bluepaint A.K.A super highway is either a joke or the beginning of something better. I suspect the former. I have a link here to a piece I wrote on the Dutch vs the U.K. if you are interested.

http://twowheelsandbeyond.blogspot.com/2010/05/...

By: Clive

Clive — Fri, 14 May 2010 17:14:47 +0000

Help! We seem to be making a mess of this in London! We believe blue paint will have a force field that will stop cyclists being hit by traffic!